I don’t know if it just me, but, i have been noticing a HUGE trend amongst owners who believe that if a dog is house trained, can walk on a lead without pulling and isn’t a barker then it is ‘trained’.
They have the opinion that commands such as ’sit’, ‘down’ and ‘come’ are mere party tricks, the object is getting the dog to do them so they can be performed for friends and family…
If they are to encounter a problem with a dog such as it jumping up on people or running out the door, their main focus is just on correcting that behaviour alone without realising that if a dog knew how to ’sit’ and ’stay’ when told to… it couldn’t jump or run away. The attitude being ”what do you mean tell him to sit, you cannot possible expect him to sit when he wants to jump up on people, can you??”. Now, they have to correct that and retrain the dog…
I really think there has to be more emphasis on the importance of OB training, but, i just don’t see it happening. There is a failure to connect the thoughts of ‘obedience training = obedient dog’
Has anyone else noticed this too, or is it just me?
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MOST "pet" owners are lazy, full of excuses and BS and have NO concept of how to train.
You have heard a lot of these excuses here time after time…"he is not a working dog, he is just a pet"….so freakin what?
Can your dog perform an on/off leash routine while under ANY and ALL distractions? Nothing fancy, just regular OB that should be expected out of EVERY living dog.
I don’t remember reading anything about a competition here or about fleeing felons…that is a whole other animal, but, can you recall your damned dog after he took off running after a bunny toward a 6 lane freeway while a band of marching kittens on parade are going by?
The sad answer is "NO" because that takes work and the use of some compulsion that will involve prongs and E collars and most people find those TOOLS aversive in today’s PC society.
The truth is that dogs are STILL property, livestock and should be trained as such, not given the the freedom to act and do as they please because they are "members of the family".
My children are members of my family…they are actual humans and they still don’t get to act stupid or get away with murder.
You know, someone very wise in here said that "In Nature there are no negatives of positives, there are only consequences"……we are today reaping those consequences of our PC way of thinking.
Hope I helped!
12 Responses
2010 Apr 09
yeah, there deffinately has been a trend against the well behaved dog.
some people i have talked to on the issue believe it is against the dogs rights to be told not to agressively "greet" people at the door.
giving the Dog more rights than the human entering the house.
i have actually lost friends over the issue.
when i go to a friends house i would prefer to have a conversation with the person rather than have their dog hump my leg and be told "Oh he just does that, just ignore him"
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2010 Apr 09
If you have a calm dog, that trusts the owner, then "orders" are easily taught. Many people just want a contented pet.
Trouble is that "party tricks" are taught to dogs that will take over when they feel that the owner can’t be trusted.
It’s just a matter of priorities.
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2010 Apr 09
I understand what you mean completely.
I have spoken with people who have dogs that counter surf. Their solution? Don’t leave food on the counters.
Same goes for tables as well.
Or dogs begging at the table during dinner.
Or humping visitors to the home.
Or the best I think was people telling me that I am cruel because I expect my dogs to sit and wait for me to put their food in their dishes each day.
The majority of this is just common politeness in the home, and I don’t understand why people would put up with it.
I’m not saying the dogs have to be obedience masters, but *some* training beyond "don’t pee in the house" would be good.
Add:
"Trouble is that "party tricks" are taught to dogs that will take over when they feel that the owner can’t be trusted."
Care to explain what this means?
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Owner of 2 Obedience/Rally dogs.
2010 Apr 09
This isn’t recent but has been going one for many years. I remember as a kid, going to people’s houses and the dog would bowl you over. Mind you this is years ago and I’m talking more than 40. These people same a sit or a down as a "trick" instead as a part of obedience. Dogs were still pulling their owners down the street but instead of harnesses they were in choke chains. Many dogs were chained in yards because of aggressive behavior. Occasionally they would be poisoned because a nasty neighbor would get tired of the barking and aggressiveness.
Many people at that time and in the present think that a puppy comes to them knowing how to do everything and house trained. So this attitude hasn’t changed much either. However, I feel that there are more better behaved dogs than in years past. This has to do with making the dog more of a family member than just a dog. I see dog training classes popping up in areas where there were none. Granted some of the training is based on ignorance but that’s another story. I also see more dogs in public places so people train them better so as not to be badly embarrassed by their bad behavior. Of course there are those who don’t also.
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old balanced trainer
2010 Apr 09
I don’t know how people can’t OB train their dogs. For me it makes life so much easier, he is just your average (maybe not) household pet, I don’t need anything fantastic, but the ability to follow commands when given is a must and very important at times. I always cop it from my grandma for NOT feeding my dog at the table, she cannot see that that would create an awful habit or it’s a habit she likes? her dog begs when some one is eating, I simply wont allow it, he can sit and look all he likes but I don’t want to hear him or feel him, if he’s gonna get anything its after dinner and put in his own bowl.
More Bored Collie: lol I’ve been called mean for making my dog sit before a meal too. I don’t see how, at least he isn’t running around my feet, getting under them, jumping up at me and getting all psycho over food.
I am also being called "mean" for enforcing MY household rules on our new house guest (dog) he is not very well trained and his manners are shot to sh*t, I don’t know how people put up with it, this dog can really get on my nerves at times, but only after a week, he’s picking things up well. One main one that annoyed me was being pawed at for attention, he would go at his for a good 5 minutes non stop, I was shocked!!! not any more, he may try a little but a quick ‘AH’ and he sits.
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2010 Apr 09
The very same gawd damned reason why children in this society have no respect, morals and are not made to realize the consequences for their actions and are not disciplined in any way shape or form.
The same people who own dogs and don’t obedience train are the same people who have children running wild, no curfews, talk back and generally just tell their parents to go to hell.
So if the cannot correctly PARENT A CHILD, why in the world should they even attempt to control the animal?
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2010 Apr 09
I actually see the opposite.
When I was growing up, and I will not go into details of how long ago that was, all our neighbors had "yard" dogs. There was no training, no vetting, the dogs bit everyone, dug up the gardens, killed the livestock, roamed the neighborhood, and were general nuisances.
Then dogs started becoming part of a family unit. People began to buy dogs and bring them in the house to live with the family. Obedience training advanced into an industry, and shingles started getting hung out.
Early methods were pretty brutal, because dogs were still looked on as livestock by most people. However, people started to realize the importance of training their dogs to have good house manners.
Nowadays, we seem to have swung in a complete opposite direction. Dogs have become "babies", and if you look at the way we raise our children these days, it is not far from the way we train our dogs. No discipline, no consequences, no rules.
With the breed I rescue, the number one issue is that the owners think it is okay to tolerate bad behaviors because the dog is small and cute. How wrong they are, and then they have a little monster they surrender to us to fix.
However, there is a BIG difference between training a dog to compete, or perform in a job, or other extracuricular activities. An average dog owner will never participate in those things, so why train for it? And do they really have the time? Now it becomes ego. My dog can do this, and my dog can do this, etc. If you aren’t using it for a job, it is a parlor trick.
Once again, I have no need of a dog who can navigate through traffic, or take down a fleeing felon, so I don’t see any need to train for that kind of exactness. Do my dogs sit when I tell them to? Do they come when I call them? Do they have good public manners? Do they have good house manners? Do they not jump up on people? Etc?
Yes to all of the above, and that is good enough for me. My dogs, my expectations.
I think the problem is that many owners don’t even have that expectation for their dogs. Training takes work, and if someone is not willing to make that commitment, that is when you see the remote trainers and the prong collars come out in the hands of people who have no clue how to use them. They bought these tools because they are expecting a quick fix to their time problem.
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2010 Apr 09
MOST "pet" owners are lazy, full of excuses and BS and have NO concept of how to train.
You have heard a lot of these excuses here time after time…"he is not a working dog, he is just a pet"….so freakin what?
Can your dog perform an on/off leash routine while under ANY and ALL distractions? Nothing fancy, just regular OB that should be expected out of EVERY living dog.
I don’t remember reading anything about a competition here or about fleeing felons…that is a whole other animal, but, can you recall your damned dog after he took off running after a bunny toward a 6 lane freeway while a band of marching kittens on parade are going by?
The sad answer is "NO" because that takes work and the use of some compulsion that will involve prongs and E collars and most people find those TOOLS aversive in today’s PC society.
The truth is that dogs are STILL property, livestock and should be trained as such, not given the the freedom to act and do as they please because they are "members of the family".
My children are members of my family…they are actual humans and they still don’t get to act stupid or get away with murder.
You know, someone very wise in here said that "In Nature there are no negatives of positives, there are only consequences"……we are today reaping those consequences of our PC way of thinking.
Hope I helped!
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Realist
2010 Apr 09
I’m sure there are those people, but the people I hang around love to train their dogs, and I see quite a few people going for more training rather than less. It may partly be regional, and also related to the increased popularity of small dogs, who even in the past often received less training than their larger counterparts.
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2010 Apr 09
Its not an entirely new thing…..my mother had an English Spaniel for many years that I could not stand. He had the worst manners of any dog I ever knew – would jump up on everyone, hyper, spoiled. He even nipped my seven year old grandson when he was there visiting (lucky for him I didnt see it !!) Ive known several people with dogs like that over the years.
My mother has actually become more of a dog disciplinarian since she has been around me and my dogs the last few years. She has had a chance to see (because I do not put up with bad behavior from her dogs, but they still look forward to seeing me) that discipline makes for a well behaved dog, who still "loves" her.
She still tends (like many people) to interpret excitement as happiness, possesiveness as protectiveness, and dominance as affection, but hey.
)
I will say, though, I see a lot more people who dont seem to know that they are allowed to tell their dogs what to do, and that if they do not like whatever the dog is doing, its okay to tell them to stop.
Personally, I blame a lot of this on a generation raised by babysitters and daycare providers. Caregivers are not allowed to discipline effectively and instill moral values, so people have no idea how to do that with either kids or dogs.
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lots o dogs
2010 Apr 09
Launi: kids…ain’t it the truth! In the US doesn’t it seem to be a result of the 60’s?…the peace and freedom era? "He has to freely express himself". No respect, no rules, no enforcement, no consequences. I know so many people my Mother’s age and my age too who had to step in and raise their grandkids because the mother was "messed up". Parents letting their kids run through others’ flower beds, refusing to believe their "little darlings" could do wrong. Making excuses…
…and the same with their pet dogs.
Greekman; as usual, hit the nail on the head.
I used to consider myself more liberal….until I grew up and "liberal" became extreme. Most people live in "la-la" land and are too concerned with being "liked", being PC and being saviors and martyrs.
We had an agility student a while ago who never could continue after the first class. Her dog was a wild, disrespectful, nipping, independent, spoiled rotten beast. No rules, no training, no enforcement, no consequences. She was worried that she be "nice" so the dog "loved" her. Well, obviously it hadn’t worked. And she had excuses up the ying yang. And she and her husband were not willing to put in the training. Funny thing, she was a third grade teacher. My husband asked her how the kids in her classroom acted and what she would do if one of them acted out. When he told her she need to think and apply the same mindset to her her dog, all her replies started with "But…"
Every person should take their puppy to obedience classes and learn how to communicate with their dog to properly train it.
Every person has an obligation, a responsibility to properly raise and take care of their family and their pets. This includes every entitiy within the household having rules and getting along.
House rules for everyone within (my kids, my husband, myself and our dogs); no peeing on the floor, no tearing apart the furniture, no ravaging company, no running away, no chasing bicyclists, no biting the mailman……..
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2010 Apr 09
Laziness, and a misinformed understanding of canine behavior. Oh, and thinking of their dogs as ‘furbabyz.’
They think that because a dog sits, in the kitchen, when you have a hot dog in you hand, he’s ‘trained.’ The problem with that kind of motivational training is that the dog is sitting because he WANTS to (because an association has been created b/w sitting in the kitchen and hot dog in mouth). He’s not sitting because he’s been instructed to do so. That’s training. When your dog understands that sit means sit, regardless of where you are, what’s going on, or whether or not you have sausages. Because you’re communicating with him, and he’s taught to respect you and that there are consequences for non-compliance. If a dog sits because when you ask regardless of what’s going on (or any other command), he understands. If not, he doesn’t.
You’re not alone- there are VERY few dogs in my dog-congested neighborhood who should be able to call themselves trained (I actually can’t think of a single one, aside from my lab). My mix even is mostly trained, but he’s extremely independent and has a strong defiant streak (cattle dog-pit mix= very independent), so we’re still working on him and I wouldn’t call him ‘trained’ yet. (and technically he’s my boyfriend’s dog- his challenge!)
I hear people screaming frantically at their ‘trained’ dogs to "ZOE, come back here right now, missy! Zoe! ZOE! ZOOOEEE!!! I said now damnit! Come here right this instant!" on a weekly basis. I can’t imagine embarrassing myself like that, but apparently some people don’t mind.
And yea, most people don’t understand that if they’re sitting, they’re staying. If they’re down, they’re down until they’re freed or told to do something else. Period. There’s no "Sit mumpsy- sit, stay…stay there, no, STAY!"
Talk about confusing!
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